Full Episode Transcript:

Hello, everyone. Welcome to Question Everything, a podcast all about learning from the successes and the failures of those who dare to, well, question everything. This podcast is part interview, part therapy, and part Price is Right. We have our own game board stacked with questions that'll make even the most successful CMOs totally sweat. I'm your host, Ashley Walter, CMO and partner at Curiosity. On today's episode, I sit down with podcast host and founder of Breaking and Entering Media, Geno Schellenberger. With over 450 episodes recorded, Breaking and Entering has become a go-to resource for industry insights and strategies. Today, you'll learn why authenticity isn't just a buzzword, but a necessity. What CMOs need to know about Gen Z in 60 seconds or less. And the most overused tactic brands use when aiming to go viral. So lace up your dancing shoes and get out your whiteboards because Geno's in the house today. Let's get started.

‍

Geno Schellenberger: Geno’s introduction

‍

Learn more about Breaking and Entering Media

Geno Schellenberger, founder and CEO of Breaking and Entering Media, has built one of the top advertising podcasts globally, dedicated to helping aspiring advertisers and agencies succeed. He and his team have transformed the platform into a leading industry resource, earning praise from leaders at Mischief, the Martin Agency, and TBWA for nurturing emerging talent and fostering agency brand connections. He was named Campaign US Young Advertiser of the Year and one of Ad Agents. is 23 Gen Zers to know. Well, I can't wait to get to know you. Geno, welcome to Question Everything. Let's go. We made this happen here in Cincinnati. It's so beautiful here. Thanks for having me. I'm excited. Oh my gosh. Everything looks great. I'm so excited too. Your podcast is blowing up. It's like an ad land phenomenon.

How did it happen? Oh my goodness. It started April 16th of 2020. It was the first episode that we posted. It was the pandemic. I'm graduating from university. Illinois, studied advertising, and I'm ready to start my first full-time job at Edelman. I get into this crazy immersion program. I was essentially going to be an intern for a year on a salary, and then boom. pandemic hits. So that is where I was sitting in my parents' basement. I was wondering what can I do with my time in the quarantine? That's where the idea of the podcast came from. Watching Tiger King. Watching Tiger King. Yes. And doing it was really those Zoom happy hour calls that people were doing. And I was like, with my aunts on the call, we all had like our drinks.

I'm like, what can I be doing? I see the little record button at the bottom of the screen. I'm like, maybe there's something there. And then I started talking and the first episode came. And now you're like a full-fledged media company. Like, what's the vision? What's the plan? Jack Westerkamp and I are doing this full-time. It's a media company. The vision really is to kind of like grow it and really just create content around advertising. Help everybody be better at their jobs within advertising and marketing. And I think there's a high ceiling there. We haven't hit it yet. And we've only been doing this full-time now for seven, eight months. Wow. Wow. All right. So you know how this podcast works. I've got 12 super spicy questions.

‍

Geno Schellenberger: How Geno and his team keep up with the industry 

‍

Learn more about Breaking and Entering Media

I don't know what's behind each of these numbers and the power is completely in your hands. So, what number are you going to pick first? We're going to start with number five. Number five. Oh, it's like a game show. I love it. All right. So Adland never sleeps. New tech, new trends, nonstop pitches. How are you guys staying sharp without like burning out and, you know, just becoming that like jaded creative guy? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, first thing it's like. We're best friends. Jack and I grew up together in the same hometown, went to different high schools, but then met up more so in college. So we're really good friends. So at the end of the day, when you know, days are tough, we get to go back to our 500 square foot apartment and we really just get a chance to not talk to each other.

Like we just we just kind of like go into our little corners or their walls there. And, you know, we can go get a beer or we can go hang out and, you know, we can always make jokes about each other. I'm asking him about his dating life. He does the same. It makes fun of me. So it's just like working with your best friend. And then also the idea that what we're creating is helping the industry and helping people like that's the intrinsic North Star. It's always been that. That's how I've been able to record 450 episodes over the past five years. So just reminding that it's helping our listeners, looking at the feedback, the LinkedIn messages that we get, people telling me that they got jobs because they got a promotion or they've learned something new that kind of helps like fuel us.

Also. Working out in the morning, doing hitting the fundamentals right, like trying to get enough sleep. We're not working like, like 20 hours a day. It's like we're doing this full-time so like eight, nine hours, you can get a lot done if you're focused for that time and then we have time off, and we can go home. Where do you go to get inspired? We're both lucky that we get to interview people that are so inspiring. So I kind of feel like podcast episodes are like my therapy sessions. And I learn so much. I get inspired by them. But then also just reading the ad trades every single day. We do a 60-second video every morning. So I'm looking at the work that people are creating.

I'm looking at the award shows, even going to some of the award galas and the events. Saw you at A-List. Exactly. Like seeing you there, seeing all the people excited, like that just makes me really happy. But I'm also kind of like an ad nerd. So I always kind of, my problem is I focus too much on the ad industry. I should probably look externally as well. But you guys are having like agencies and brand side marketers. I mean, it's really runs the gamut, even like internally. All the way up to CEO, everybody it started with just helping like people break in for their first job now it's expanded, yeah, to everybody helping everybody out, so cool. Alright, let's go back to the game board.

‍

Geno Schellenberger: The best way to stand out as a Gen Zer in an AI-fueled world

‍

Learn more about Breaking and Entering Media

‍

Alright, so I will pick for the next one, number one, Number one. Let's see here. Okay. So there's a looming fear that AI is coming for entry-level ad jobs. So if you were just now breaking in, what would you say to Gen Zers out there? Or what would your Gen Z playbook be with AI? Yeah. I think now more than ever, personal branding does matter. It's, you know, be really good at the fundamentals of your job, but then also try to create some sort of passion project or a podcast or a blog of some sort, an Instagram channel, like try to get your name out there, show up in person, build your brand, whatever your niche is on the side. I think that's so important because I do, I do, it does scare me.

Yeah. Like for some of the copywriters are out there, art directors out there, strategists out there, like. It's doing a pretty good job. And that is pretty scary. So cementing yourself as a thought leader, you own a niche, you have this power, this superpower. I think that's super important. Yeah. I mean, you got your job at Havas, right? Did I read that right? Because of the podcast. Exactly. It's like, we don't need your seven-year experience. Two years with your passion project was enough. Yeah, that was wild. I interviewed Myra Nussbaum, who was at the time the president of Havas Chicago. I got done interviewing her. She followed up with me and was like, 'Do you want this comms director job?' She sent me the job description.

So I was like, 'Heck, yeah.' Like, but also I don't have seven years experience. But she said, 'All the connections you made through the podcast, you didn't even know it. You were interviewing David Griner, Doug Zanger, who's here today. Like Tim Nudd, like these journalists.' I just was trying to stay consistent every week. And then I've developed those communications, like that PR list of friendlies, we call it. Yeah. Yeah, very, very cool! We just had PJ prayer on the podcast last episode and he was talking a lot about AI and how there's so much opportunity for copywriters. You mentioned copywriters to learn how to write for AI agents and taking their same craft but just adding another layer of skill into it, so it'll be really interesting to see how these like up-and-coming graduates like their skill sets are just going to be so much more evolved, yeah, yeah!

I think just like owning it and also learning it super well. Because I would imagine you're getting into an ad agency. You have that fresh perspective. They're going to be looking towards the new hires on what's going on in culture. How do we use this AI? Just constantly put in your social media feeds, like tutorials. Follow the right channels so you're learning as you doom scroll. Yeah. Doom scroll. Yeah. 

‍

Geno Schellenberger: An outdated adland mindset that should retire

‍

Learn more about Breaking and Entering Media

‍

All right. Let's go back to the board. Wonderful. Number 10. Oh, you tricked me. All right. Number 10. You were inspired by Mad Men. What's one old school ad industry rule you think should be retired along with the three martini lunch? I have one. I remember I was leaving at around when I had an agency job. I was leaving around 4:45 p.

m. And somebody said to me, taking a half day. And I'm like. Yes, classical joke. Like I laughed like the person that said this didn't really mean it in a malicious way. Like and I was friends with everybody there. And I just think that's like even just like propelling that vocabulary, that way of thinking, I think needs to stop. You know, that that one kind of still bugs me today. So I would always like. tried to take that away so true I think one of the blessings of COVID has been this like freeing of needing to be in the office 40 50 60 70 80 hours a week it's like we can be adults and do great work almost anywhere yeah yeah absolutely and I have no like it wasn't I just like you can work from anywhere and like maybe I was done for the day.

Maybe I was actually not going home to work. Maybe it was 4:45 and I got all my work done for that day and I didn't have any meetings and like it's OK for me to be done at around five o'clock. Yeah. So I think that's something we should retire that like long hours for no reason. Just that grind. I agree. I agree. All right. 

‍

Geno Schellenberger: What surprises Geno about the ad industry 

‍

Learn more about Breaking and Entering Media

‍

Let's go back to the board. Number two. Alright. What's behind number two? So what's the most surprising thing that you've learned about the advertising industry from one of the guests on your show? One of the most surprising things, how entrepreneurial this industry is. I mean, in my case, able to start my own business, but like.

The idea of like going into an ad agency, you can create your own little ideas that the agency will produce or they'll like, you know, invest in you. Yeah. Whether it's like we'll give you a stipend for hobbies or learning a new language like or, you know, a proactive idea for a client. I've heard, I think it was with Graham North from Nice and Frank, like when he was working at Goodby, he started his own like. Uh, like his own little incubator for brands and it ended up working really well and he dipped out and started Nice & Frank because of that that foundational skill there so that's the one that comes top of mind. How entrepreneurial is if you look at like Fast Pickle which is not a sponsor at the moment they have sponsored us, um guy that runs an advertising agency wanting to create a new hydration

drink and he has a skill set to start a brand and so he created Fast Pickle it's just like pickle juice and it's really fun yeah Liquid Death is another example of that how entrepreneurial this this industry is it is so true I feel like I don't know me growing up in the industry. I don't feel like people were as entrepreneurial. I don't feel like the like side hustle and the passion projects. And maybe I just didn't hear about them as much as I do now, but I love that our industry celebrates that more than ever. We have a program that we just launched. It's called Cure Lab, which I got to, I'll give you like all the deets on the side, but it is. So people can come and pitch us like Shark Tank.

So if you have a business idea that you want to build and then curiosity will be your first investor. And so how do we give them funding? We're going to give $25,000 to the winner this first round. Can I submit? I know, maybe you should, or maybe you should judge. You could be one of the judges of the competition. We'll be here. And then we're going to partner them with mentors in the industry so they have somebody that they can like, ask questions of, look up to as they're building their little business. That's wonderful. That's wonderful. Just be ready. They might dip out, which would be great. They become a client one day. You want to see people be successful. You want people to have really good experiences.

Geno Schellenberger: How theater and improv can boost presentation skills

‍

Learn more about Breaking and Entering Media

‍

Full circle. It ripples across the agency, that good energy. I totally agree. I totally agree. All right. Let's go back to the board. Wonderful. Let's go with number 12. All right. Number 12. 2012. You got into theater very early on after a sports injury. And so I'm really curious, how did that plot twist shape the way you pitch ideas today? Oh, my goodness. I love this question. Not many people know this. Yes, you guys have done your homework. I really appreciate that. It's so funny. Yeah, I think everybody should take like some like should be in some sort of production. You know, if you can get on stage, I think even for an improv class or just like a little like training of some sort, I'm not like a group.

It changed my life. It gave me confidence to get up on stage. It just kind of, you know, took away all like that stress. I still get nightmares, though, of going up on stage for getting a line like that doesn't go away. So it might be some trauma there. I never did. But also, it's like the, you know. The speaking and the articulation when you go into a room or you're presenting, or you know those skills are so beneficial for especially advertising, I would say if you're going to be an account executive or really anybody that's going to be presenting ideas, it's so so crucial. I totally agree with you. You mentioned improv; I have like a very soft spot in my heart for improv, so I just tell you this funny story: I think you'll appreciate it.

But I was pitching at my last agency, we're in this huge room, it's like very dimly lit and I look over, halfway through our presentation, the CMO is asleep, like dead asleep! And instead of doing anything, you know what we did? We just kept going. And I'm like, 'we ended the meeting.' We didn't win, of course. And I'm like, 'why didn't I do something?' Why didn't I change the room up? Why didn't I go wake him up? And I realized that we lacked improv skills. We were really good at presenting our content. But if you threw us a curveball or asked us a question, we weren't great acting on our feet. And so I actually partnered with Second City out of Chicago and we did like a year long study with them and like got on stage at Second City in Chicago, like did all this amazing stuff with them.

And Kelly Leonard was on this podcast, the author of Yes And, if you haven't read that, you would love it. But I totally agree. And I did a ton of research, like a lot of business leaders and CEOs actually have studied improv. A lot of the business schools have improv as part of the coursework. I think there's just so much we can learn about our leadership abilities, our presentation styles, communication through theater. Yeah. What do you think you would have done with that CMO looking back, like make people switch seats and stuff? I think I would have stopped. I probably would have gone and liked turned on the lights just like casually like, 'Hey, it's getting a little dark in here.' Let me turn on this light.

I would have said like, 'Hey, is any of this tracking with you? Does anybody have any questions before we move on?' Now I would have had the confidence to just stop and like put more pressure, I think, on him. And his team, but also, is like, is that a type of CMO you want to be working with, probably not, probably not, which is like really interesting to think about, like you've invested all this time and money, we flew halfway across the country to have this meeting, do you just walk out, like should we have I'm curious, like what other agencies would have done in that moment, yeah that's interesting. Well, hopefully that never happens again. And if it does, you know what to do. Now I know what to do.

Have you ever used your improv? You use it all the time in podcasting. All the time in podcasting. In agency life, I'm sure I did. I mean, I would do like. You know any all-agency meetings like leading, like trivia but if there was a stall, a guest speaker was late or if somebody was there's a tech failure they would give me the mic and like Halloween-like contests and stuff like that, I would have to MC it every single time and I'm like the youngest person in the agency, yeah, and they just like let Geno like give it give the mic to Geno and like you know engage with the audience like pull out my phone, look up trivia questions, let's go, know all the names of the people whoever like wins, gets an extra drink or something like that, or gets a day off, I would say.

‍

Geno Schellenberger: What agencies get wrong with their positioning

‍

Learn more about Breaking and Entering Media

Yeah. They had a lot of trust in you. Yeah. For better or for worse. Probably for better. All right. Let's go back to the board. Do you want to pick? I mean, my favorite number is nine. So I'm always going to go nine. Let's go nine. Has anybody ever let you pick? Sometimes people will let me pick the last question, but the thing is, is I don't know what's behind each of these numbers. So I sometimes will call to the crew and ask them to pick which one they want. Okay. So you recently hosted an agency positioning battle with my good friend, Brian Bonilla, who I adore, who's also on the show. So why do you think so many agencies are getting it wrong with their positioning?

There's some really good ones out there too, but sometimes it's nice to talk about. I think some are just really old agencies. I don't know. Stuck in their old ways. Yeah. I feel like it's a lot of the newer independent or smaller shops that have got to define their own positioning, and they've done an amazing job, like you all, but that doesn't give an excuse for some of these more established holding company-owned agencies to reposition or slightly just have a tagline of some sort. But the best ones I believe is when the name also aligns with the values, and then has that creative spark to it and gets it out there to the world. And there's a good amount that have that, too. There was about 32, I believe, in our agency positioning battle.

You guys were in it as well. Yeah. Yeah. And OK, so talk about your dream agency profile. That was a really good little series that you did for our episode that you did with Brian. OK. The dream agency you guys would want to work for. Yeah. Yeah. We did that. We have trivia coming up, too. But we did. Like build your dream agency and I, I live in New York so I just wanted to do something completely opposite. Yeah, I would call my agency 'No Research' And I would just everything would be like there would be no research. Everything would just be off like a quick human truth that we discussed in the room and find like that insight, do a human truth and then just create work.

It would be in San Francisco, ideally a beer client. It would be a four-day work week, which alludes to my earlier point there of that balance of work-work life balance. And I had on Salmo Ramos as the CCO. And retroactively, I realized he probably would not buy into. That because he's a really hard worker, he does a really good job, I think he values good research, good strategy as well, so there might be some issues there. Sorry Anselmo, we love you, but you're fired. A backup draft or something, I don't know who else would you have? Have you thought about it? I don't know who do you think would fit that profile maybe it's an up-and-comer maybe maybe Mary Adam is a young copywriter younger copywriter around my age in Chicago who's going to be up next.

‍

Geno Schellenberger: How Geno gained confidence around the mic

‍

Learn more about Breaking and Entering Media 

‍

I would say she's phenomenal, she'll be she would probably vibe with that love that we'll give her the ball okay there you go yeah promotion new hire yeah just needing to go through the incubator that you guys are running yeah yeah cure love yeah all right back to the board all right

number four let's go OK, so you said you didn't talk until the age of two and now you host a podcast that's heard by thousands. What flipped the switch from silent observer to mic dropper? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. At least that's what my mom says. Is that late? I don't know. Does it take a while? I don't know. I read about it. I don't think it's that late. OK. Let's say that's your mom. Your mom.

Your mom does like to talk about that. Yeah. What flipped the switch, though? I was always pretty quiet watching my brother who also did theater, like get up like and like go to his productions. And like he would emcee award shows as well in high school. I think that really kind of set the tone of like you can be vocal, you can be yourself. So I'm really grateful to have him in my life. My father was an educator at a high school and He was a guidance counselor. So he ran a leadership program for around 20 plus years of a scholarship in his name and he brought me up on stage and when I was like

eight or nine as well in front of a bunch of high schoolers and they loved him mr shelley they call them and he brought me up on stage and like made me dance like the dj played music and like i started dancing and then like the high schoolers loved it they were cheering me on i think that was also a really pivotal moment it gave me confidence to get up and just people like like authenticity so when we're swearing and like messing around the whiteboard news that we do every morning with my good friend that also kind of reaffirms it too and that's like maybe the secret sauce wow what a cool moment And especially at that age, I feel like a lot of kids are like really timid.

That would have freaked them out. And the fact that you like, like, you know what, I'm just going to dance. Absolutely. I did like the leg grab and something like that. I don't know. I could do it later. We need video or something. For sure. Yeah, that's great. Well, you dance now every day. Jack does more of the dancing. He does more of the dancing. But yeah. We really put ourselves out there every single day and like that a word authenticity, like I want to see people do that; I challenge them to make some funny videos like us or do some like something on their own, like whether it's like 'show your work,' uh, you know, show some spec work out there, that maybe you're holding back, like post it, get it out there, that's a great idea; we all that stuff just kind of die.

‍

Geno Schellenberger: What CMOs still get wrong about Gen Z

‍

Learn more about Breaking and Entering Media

Yeah, okay, all right, all right. Number six, okay, so in 60 seconds or less I'll time you. What do marketers still not understand about Gen Z? All right. Do you have the phone? Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. It's going to take me a minute. So this would be Gen Z news you need to know in 60 seconds or less. Let's go. Gen Z insights you need to know in 60 seconds or less. So, this is a thing that people get wrong about Gen Z. I'm really not that sure because I am like the oldest portion of Gen Z. I'm 1997. So, I'm like right on the border of millennial and Gen Z. So I can kind of flex there. I don't know. People say they don't like to be advertised to.

I think that's I think that's fairly true. I think they they really like seeing on Instagram and communities of like them promoting products indirectly. I think that's a fair assumption. And we're very entrepreneurial. So, that is all I got. Was there anything else that I should add? No, I think that's a pretty good recap of the Gen Z audience. Yeah. Stop. Good job. Boom. Don't even need all that time. Oh, that's so fun. We should have done a dance though, right? Oh, for sure. I love that you guys do that. Whose idea was that? Like 60 seconds or less, you like cram in a ton, but it's only the most important stuff. Highlights of the day. Yeah. I mean, it came, we just came up with the idea when we moved into our office on Madison Avenue.

It's a little, it's a shittier WeWork. It's egregious. And we had this space. We had the whiteboard, which I stole from my last agency job. They gave it to me. They were very supportive. And we had the whiteboard, and we just, I mean if you look at the first one, it's like three words or like or three sentences, and we didn't like put a lot of detail into it, so we had that space and we just wanted to create more content that's all it's about is creating more content for our for our company. I read that you almost deleted your first podcast episode, yes, yeah, April the so that would have been April 15th of 2020, that night,

you know it was scheduled to post the 16th, I remember waking up opening the laptop like hovering over the delete button with the first episode with my first guest and that was just because the imposter syndrome is the industry gonna hate this once it's out there it's out there but you can actually delete stuff like on the internet, like that's a misconception for sure, but I almost deleted it because I was just freaking out and I shut the laptop; did not delete it. I had a conversation with the first guest the next day, telling her this-who's a good friend of mine, went to school together; she's like, 'It's just a documentation of your process and progress along the way.

It's you're not the expert, the guests are the experts, so learn from them.' You're also taking on the perspective of the audience, so you can ask the dumb questions, and now I don't think there are as many dumb questions-they're dumb in different ways. Now, so I'm really, really glad I didn't do that because we wouldn't be here today. Congratulations. Thank you. Took a lot of bravery. Thank you. But it's worth it. For sure. All right. 

‍

Geno Schellenberger: The brand campaign that first made Geno say, “I want in.”

‍

Learn more about Breaking and Entering Media

‍

Let's go back to the game board. Number three. So let's. I figured this is going to come up. Let's rewind to your early days of duct tape wallets, which I hope you still have some in absolute ads. What was the first campaign that made you go like, 'this is it.' This is what I want to do.

‍

I would have thought that. I was actually like going to watch a YouTube video refresher on how to make one. I wasn't sure if you're going to like have a roll of duct tape because I think I would be able to do it still. The Absolute ads were definitely interesting, like cutting those out, putting them on like gluing them on like poster board. And my mom was like, 'Is this like a project or something?' I'm like, 'No, I just really like this stuff.' Like this is interesting. Snoop Dogg's face was in it and like just cutouts. Um, the first campaign, excuse me, the first campaign that probably was like this is, it was um like past the hinds and Madman just like that was like what I watched and I was like, wait, this this is it.

‍

Geno Schellenberger: The most overused breakthrough tactic right now

‍

Learn more about Breaking and Entering Media

‍

From watching that show and I think they actually craft times actually ran those spots so that was the first one very cool. All right, we've got time for one more, what do you think? One more last one, okay let's do this. You're doing great. Number 11, I know. No pressure. I'm like most people on here don't have their own podcast with 150,000 plus listeners. All right. So, you've seen brands go viral. What's the most overhyped breakthrough tactic people need to chill on? I'm just thinking right now of like from a business to business branding standpoint, because that's really where I kind of sit. The one where you have a green screen and a selfie video going on to explain stuff. Like there's one person that does it really, really well.

He's the OG. Shout out to Ollie. That's right. But I've seen other people try to kind of mimic that. And I think it's just like we can relax on that. Like there's other ways of doing it. So I think that's a little overhyped now. And that's the one top of mind. What do you think? Well, I think that's a great answer. I mean, that's really specific. I don't know. How do you feel about? Like influencers right now, do you feel like they are still being leveraged appropriately? You see some brands just like completely abusing influencers in my opinion, yeah I think like um it's like this: they clearly don't use your product or they just started using your product because you're paying them a shitload of money, you know what I mean?

It's like, it's just so inauthentic, going back to the authenticity thing. Yeah, definitely influencers. I don't get like super excited about, wow, they use the perfect influencer to promote this product. It's not going to make me want to buy it personally. I'm looking for the tried and true good campaigns like the Aura Ring that came out a couple of days ago. I think that's a good one. Like never, never, like never be a former New Yorker that mother did is just like out of home digital, just classic, good idea, good execution. That to me is how you break through on good ideas and great execution. That's right. That's right. All right. So we always end our podcast with a fun little this or that. So you don't need to overthink it.

Geno Schellenberger: Closing remarks

‍

Learn more about Breaking and Entering Media

‍

Um, we've got a couple of um topics and you're just gonna pick this one or that one okay however we're gonna do it a little differently today sure so I don't have duct tape wallets but I do have hot wings I hear you're a fan of Sean Evans' Hot Ones, yeah he went to U of I I love that true story right okay so I have got two very spicy chicken wings and so I'm gonna do it with you we will cheers and then we'll do a this or that. Let's do it. Are you game? I'm so game. Are you kidding me? We'll let the team bring in the wings. Oh, okay. I was like, I saw them like gearing up. I'm like, did I do something wrong?

Like, what are they talking about? Like they had something. All right. You've got the sweatband on. They're not temperature hot. That's okay. We've got to ding it. We're going to ding it. Oh God, I'm very nervous. There's a lot of sauce on here. I'm Geno Schellenberger and this is, what's the name of the segment? Hot Ones This or That. This or That Spicy Version. Oh yeah, that's hot! Oh my god, it's so hot, help! Okay, here we go, This or That? Geno, New York or Chicago? Oh my gosh, you cannot do this to me, you gotta pick one, this is this is torture, torture! Um, I'm gonna go with uh, Chicago. Chicago. Okay. All right. Dancing or podcasting? Dancing or podcasting? Podcasting. Podcasting. That's an easy one. Okay.

Crowbar Awards or At Age A-List Awards? Crowbar Awards. For sure. We'll link to those. A studio mic or a tiny mic? Tiny mic. A cocktail with Don Draper or an episode with David Droga? He just stepped down, so Don Draper. Cocktail. All right. That was it, man. This was a ton of fun. What'd you think? So fun. I'm sweating. I am too. I'm curious how hot is this going to get. I think we have a few minutes to figure that out. What's the best way for our listeners to get a hold of you? Follow Breaking and Entering Media on LinkedIn. And that's it. Just do that, and everything else will take care of itself. Alright. Until next time. Thank you.

‍